As Br Michael celebrates his Golden Jubilee as a Marist Brother this year, his journey from a rookie teacher to the inaugural National Director of Marist Schools Australia reflects a lifetime of dedication to the Marist mission and its intellectual rigour.
Excerpts from the interview, part 2:
Despite a noticeable decline in church attendance across Australia and many Western nations, Catholic schools continue to see rising enrolment numbers. What do you think accounts for this intriguing disconnect?
A simple answer to that interesting question, though not a simplistic one, is that schools – and indeed other Catholic service agencies such as health, aged care and social services – are doing what they do very well, while the institutional church may not be performing as effectively. By the institutional church, I am referring to the leadership of some bishops, some of the church’s discipline and doctrine, parish structures and worship – in all cases where they seem to be missing the mark of the reality of people’s lives. Schools, hospitals and social programs, by contrast, are immersed in such realities and arguably more responsive to them.
In the first major document of his pontificate, Pope Francis taught that reality is more important than ideas. He has tried to bring the church and its theology to be more informed by people’s reality. If the church were presenting the gospel message in more compelling, inspiring, and engaging ways, and if the parish experience was more inviting and responsive to where people are, we might see different results.
What lacks credibility, from my perspective, is when I hear a priest or church leader say, “Well, the schools should be doing better, then people would come to church.” I'd argue the reverse is true. Schools are doing pretty well, as evidenced by the demand. At the same time, of course, Catholic schools need to continue to have Jesus and his Gospel at their heart, and to be effectively linked into the life of the church of which they are part.
"If the church were presenting the gospel message in more compelling, inspiring, and engaging ways, and if the parish experience was more inviting and responsive to where people are, we might see different results."
How do you think the Church can conduct itself in a more inspiring way?
I wouldn't presume to give a comprehensive response, as there are studies, institutes, and task forces looking at these questions. However, one example is the style of worship. Perhaps some other Christian churches have something to teach us here. What can we learn from other traditions about skills in preaching, in breaking open what the Gospel means for people and how it speaks to their lives? What can we learn about such elements as the place of women in leadership and ministry, connection with youth, the role engaging music, or a better practices around welcome and inclusion?
Given the significant challenges the Catholic Church has faced in recent decades, particularly the Royal Commission findings, how have these issues impacted your personal faith? As a dedicated theologian, have they changed your perception of the religious leaders you once admired?
The whole process has been devastating. It has been scarifying. It has ripped us apart, and it has ripped me apart personally.
First and foremost, my heart goes out to the victims. It’s terrible and goes against everything we stand for and aspire to be. The fact that young people have suffered abuse in Catholic schools is horrifying. Much of it is an abuse of power, which is profoundly disheartening.
The breach of trust, confidence, and the duplicity involved have been heart-wrenching. However, thank goodness it has been exposed. The sense of betrayal has cut to the core, but now that it has been exposed, it can be dealt with.
I believe there will be long-lasting residual damage to the credibility of church leadership. Re-establishing that credibility will take time and will not be achieved by simply filling churches. It will be re-established through just actions, working towards a just and loving society, and doing so in practical ways.
If you look beyond church attendance and focus on the wonderful work being done in Catholic hospitals, schools, and social welfare agencies, you will see where the credibility of the Church remains strong. These are the places where most of the Church's action happens, and their credibility remains high. This is where we should concentrate our efforts, much like Jesus did - focusing on healing people and bringing them to wholeness. That’s the true work of the Church and where we need to build on what the Gospel is all about.
"This is where we should concentrate our efforts, much like Jesus did - focusing on healing people and bringing them to wholeness."
During this period, have you ever found yourself questioning your faith or your belief in God?
My faith itself hasn't been questioned, but it has caused me to question aspects of my own academic background, particularly in organisational culture. I had to move beyond the idea that this was just a few bad individuals within an otherwise good institution. Instead, I had to look at what caused an institutional culture to allow such abuse to take place, albeit unknowingly and unwittingly for most people. This needed to be interrogated.
I have had to question this in the schools I have led myself. Why didn't we know about this? Why was it not reported by victims or kept a secret when it was? Part of it is the insidious ways that the duplicitous nature of abusers plays out, but that's not the whole story.
I believe the Church still has some way to go. There remains a patriarchal power dynamic that is not yet balanced or empathetic enough. This is a bigger question, and it's the institutional aspects that I have questioned and continue to question.
The Marist Brothers in Australia and New Zealand are at a critical juncture, with some suggesting the order is nearing its conclusion. Yet, paradoxically, there's growing interest in Marist spirituality among lay people and youth. In light of this evolving landscape, what innovative approaches could revitalise the Brotherhood? Is there room to reimagine traditional vows, such as considering married men for the Brotherhood?
I don't think we have a vocations crisis; rather, we are experiencing a vocations explosion. There are now many more people attracted to the Marist way, wanting to belong and live out their baptismal vocation in the Marist tradition of ministering and belonging.
We are dealing with this explosion by creating a way of being Marist that allows for greater inclusion. Married people don't need to be Brothers to be fully Marist. It's about reconceptualising how this can work, which is what underpins our Marist Association.
In some parts of the Marist world, people haven't grasped this concept yet. They still think it needs to be a Brothers-centric organisation with Brothers in charge and others in auxiliary or second-tier roles. We have developed a different way of thinking here in Australia.
"There are now many more people attracted to the Marist way, wanting to belong and live out their baptismal vocation in the Marist tradition of ministering and belonging."
There's a sadness in me regarding the diminishing number of Brothers. I would love to see Brothers in every Marist place, as we offer something unique through our religious consecration. However, the bigger blessing, which far outweighs this concern, is the number of other people claiming, naming, and owning the Marist way.
The modification, in my view, isn't about changing the Marist Brotherhood itself, but about expanding our understanding of what it means to be Marist. It's about creating a more inclusive Marist identity that embraces both religious Brothers and lay people committed to the Marist charism. Within such a community, the role and contribution of the Brothers can be more faithful to who we should be as religious.
Moving to a subject that you are clearly passionate about – books. As a theologian who has authored many books, how do you respond to critics who argue that faith-based education may constrain critical thinking or limit exposure to diverse worldviews?
First, let me say that I see myself as an educationalist and historian rather than a theologian. But, if “theology is faith seeking understanding” as the classic definition puts it, then we are all theologians!
If faith-based education is being approached in a way that constrains critical thinking or limits exposure to diverse worldviews, then it's being approached incorrectly. Theology should open the mind, not close it. Education in the Catholic school should broaden perspectives, not narrow them.
A good faith-based education should provide people with principles for their own thinking and ways of engaging critically and openly with diverse ideas. It should equip individuals with tools to think for themselves, examine different viewpoints, and make judgments without being defensive.
"If faith-based education is being approached in a way that constrains critical thinking or limits exposure to diverse worldviews, then it's being approached incorrectly."
Any sort of closed thinking is problematic. When a Christian church of whatever denomination adopts an approach that is closed, straitjacketed, simplistic, and insulated, it serves neither its own members nor society at large. Good education in a faith-based setting shouldn't be that way at all.
Instead, it should foster intellectual curiosity, encourage questioning, and promote a deeper understanding of one's own faith while also respecting and learning about other belief systems. It should help students develop critical thinking skills that they can apply not just to matters of faith, but to all aspects of life.
In essence, faith-based education, when done right, should enhance rather than limit critical thinking and exposure to diverse worldviews. It should prepare students to engage thoughtfully and respectfully with a pluralistic world, grounded in their own beliefs but open to understanding others.
You have written extensively on a variety of topics. What initially sparked your passion for writing, and how has that passion developed over time?
I think I developed my passion for writing when I was about eight years old. I have always enjoyed writing and have had a natural interest in history and historical topics. As I came into contact with theology, that interest expanded to include that field as well.
The spark that led to my more extensive involvement in Marist spirituality, history, and education came from opportunities I was given to be part of some international initiatives. An invitation from the General Council in the 1990s to write was particularly influential. From there, one thing just led to another. It's happened more by accident than design, and it's never been my full-time job. It's always been something I have done on the side.
Even today, I have other roles that constitute my "day job." While I might have liked it to be different, that's how it has been. There's still a lot more to write and do in this field.
"I have always enjoyed writing and have had a natural interest in history and historical topics."
Of the books you have written, which one holds a special place in your heart, and which required the most effort to complete?
Possibly the book I wrote for the Broken Bay Institute, a theology institution here in Sydney, on the role of charism in Catholic education. I wrote it as a base text for a postgraduate course in theology and educational leadership that never came to be taught. I was invited to write a generic text that people from different spiritual backgrounds could use to examine how various Christian spiritual traditions contribute to Catholic education.
In many ways, this book was the crystallisation of over 20 years of working in that space. While for me it's mostly been in the Marist context, the book explores the more general idea of how the spiritual families of the Church (a phrase I prefer to use) can contribute to the vitality of Catholic education and Catholic schools in today's changing context.
This book, which I titled Now, with Enthusiasm, is perhaps the most comprehensive thing I have written. However, it's also been a great privilege to be invited to write Volume 3 of the History of the Marist Brothers, which was an intense writing experience.
I have also written other works on Marist Spirituality and Marist Education. I would love to write a book on Marist leadership someday, but that's a project for the future, along with a few others.
As you approach your Golden Jubilee as a Marist Brother, how has your spiritual journey unfolded over these five decades? Can you share any pivotal moments that have significantly shaped your faith?
It’s an interesting question. At first, I don't think there's been any single major crisis or event that has dramatically turned things in one direction or another for me. However, the cumulative influence of being a teacher, being in the company of young people, and being a leader has profoundly shaped my journey.
As a leader, people often speak at some depth with their boss, with a sense of trust that's there. This has brought me intimately into people's lives, which has been a privilege. It has emphasised to me the value of the gift of my life in the roles I have had. Without wanting to sound pretentious, it's been humbling.
"The cumulative influence of being a teacher, being in the company of young people, and being a leader has profoundly shaped my journey."
Over the years, I have been involved with families and young people during times of death, loss, and grief, as well as times of great joy, celebration, and significant hardship. Being involved with people in all these situations has had a defining and shaping effect on who I have become.
I hope that over the last 50 years, I have grown to be more empathetic, accepting, humble, and committed. I believe these experiences have helped me develop these qualities.
Have you ever grappled with doubts about your chosen path? Were there moments when you yearned for a different life -perhaps marriage and family? If so, how did you overcome these doubts, and recommit to your vocation?
Oh, a lot. Yes, I think it’s quite natural to speculate about different paths one might have taken. What if I had chosen this path or that path? It's natural, but it's also idle and indulgent, even unhealthy to some extent.
In anyone's life commitment, there needs to be a continual recommitment and deepening. You won't deepen or recommit unless you decide and redecide to do so. So, yes, I think that's very true.
"In anyone's life commitment, there needs to be a continual recommitment and deepening."
If the reasons that I, or any Brother, had for joining the Order 20, 30, 40, 50, or even 70 years ago, are still the same reasons we had as 19-year-olds, then we are probably in a state of arrested development. We need to grow and evolve. When I was 19, my reasons were appropriate for that age. Now, as a 69-year-old, my commitment is based on the man I am today and the experiences I have had.
It's about continually reassessing and recommitting to the path I have chosen, understanding it through the lens of my current age and experiences. That's my commitment.
What daily habits or rituals have you found most meaningful in sustaining your faith and inner calm? How have these practices evolved over time?
I have discovered, as I think millions of people have before me, that without a life of prayer, things can become disoriented, shallow, or purposeless. For all people, but certainly for Brothers and religious, a life of daily prayer is essential. The need to be faithful to that practice is crucial.
Secondly, the importance of having significant people in your life cannot be overstated. We are not hermits, and having companions is vital.
Thirdly, having work to do is important. As one ages, the nature of the work changes, and perhaps 'work' isn't quite the right word - it's more about having a purpose to get up in the morning.
"I have discovered, as I think millions of people have before me, that without a life of prayer, things can become disoriented, shallow, or purposeless."
So, these three things are key:
My own interior life needs nurturing through prayer.
The relationships I have need nurturing.
The purpose I have needs to be continually refocused and regenerated.
These practices help maintain a sense of inner peace and connection with God. It's about nurturing the spiritual, relational, and purposeful aspects of life.
This year, we also celebrated the 25th anniversary of Marcellin Champagnat’s canonisation; which aspect of his life and teachings has resonated most deeply with you and influenced your journey as a Marist Brother over the past five decades?
Marcellin is an enormously attractive personality, but quite different from me. One of the things I have come to appreciate is just how diverse the founding group was. Marcellin allowed these individuals to become their best selves. There were introverts and extroverts, indoor and outdoor people, great teachers and those who struggled with teaching, skilled administrators and poor ones, scholars and those who weren't academically inclined.
The group he founded was remarkably diverse, which is attractive in itself. I can relate to Marcellin as someone distinct from me, yet inspiring. He brought a very grounded, relational approach to our life. It's very unaffected, which I find appealing.
"One of the things I have come to appreciate is just how diverse the founding group was. Marcellin allowed these individuals to become their best selves."
Marcellin was also a man of principle, quite tough actually - a demanding taskmaster in many ways. But people had a sense that he believed in them. I'd like to think that he might believe in me and in everyone else I have had the privilege to live with.
It's been one of the blessings of my life to have had the opportunity to study Marcellin and our founding intuitions in more depth. The more I discover about our origins, the more I am attracted to the Marist project. Marcellin's ability to inspire and nurture such a diverse group of individuals, his grounded approach, and his unwavering belief in others continue to resonate with me and have been crucial in my journey as a Marist Brother.
What advice would you offer to those Brothers who are just beginning their journey, especially in Timor-Leste and other regions of the Province?
My advice would be to attend to the three things I mentioned earlier:
Attend faithfully to their interior life. This means nurturing their spiritual growth and maintaining a strong connection with their faith.
Be very present to their community and relationships, particularly within their Brothers community. Building and maintaining strong connections with fellow brothers is crucial.
Jump wholeheartedly into what they're doing. They should strive to like and love their work, and especially to love the young people with whom they work.
"I'd like to think that Marcellin might believe in me and in everyone else I have had the privilege to live with."
If they can get these three things in place, I believe they will have a very fruitful and engaging life as a Marist Brother. It's about balancing their personal spiritual growth, engagement with their confreres, and passionate dedication to their mission.
Read part one.
Written by Gayatri Nair
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